It’s just a thought experiment. I learned about the phenomenon of dominance orientation a few years back. It’s unfortunately a real thing. Probably had survival value at one point.
Yeah theres a really interesting podcast by Sean Illing on the Gray Area about status and the role it played in our survival. But it also means our obsession with it is an ill fit for modern society - and problems like the one you discussed crop up
you forgot "I openly rely on the state-sanctioned violence to shield me from the inevitable consequences of being a 'have' in close physical proximity to a society of 'have-nots'" but other than that this is bulletproof.
"It is not to be thought that the life of darkness is sunk in misery and lost as if in sorrowing. There is no sorrowing. For sorrow is a thing that is swallowed up in death, and death and dying are the very life of the darkness."
im not a "winner in the game of capitalism", im lower middle class. and i oppose UBI, i dont think people deserve it. we dont need a zombified mass of people who are plugged to a system of consumer capitalism, and must be artificially kept there by literally just giving them money. encouraging useless eaters is not a productive long-term strategy.
didn't we just learn in the pandemic that people would be productive even when not forced to on threat of starvation and death? people picked up all kinds of new skills and interests when presented with an opportunity to choose how they spent their time, being a species of problem-solvers means that human beings are inherently productive...I'd LOVE to see what that looks like without 90 percent of humankind being forced to struggle for everyday subsistence.
if that happens, that all human tasks are done better by automatons, we can all be useless eaters, and by that point it won't even matter. What matters now, is the prevention of degradation of society by internet-induced passiveness, which leaves us little more than animals, though not free, wild and virile, but caged and tranquilized.
we're still lightyears from automating intellectual tasks anyway.
well i dont know, perhaps the anonymity of the online landscape means that i feel more confident quoting extremists, be they Hitler, ISIS or Stalin. I certainly don't equate the same things to "useless eater"-dom as Hitler did. Perhaps I feel like talking about "eugenics" otherwise would just result in me being called a dogwhisteler. But for the record, I think fascists (and any idealist ideologues) are as useless as can be. I don't even necessarily believe that these "useless eaters" should be killed or anything like that, I guess I'm just uh, concerned about the stifling of humanity that I have seen consumer capitalism do.
Hadn't thought about the opposition to a UBI as a status thing. Very enlightening.
It’s just a thought experiment. I learned about the phenomenon of dominance orientation a few years back. It’s unfortunately a real thing. Probably had survival value at one point.
Yeah theres a really interesting podcast by Sean Illing on the Gray Area about status and the role it played in our survival. But it also means our obsession with it is an ill fit for modern society - and problems like the one you discussed crop up
Do you know which episode?
It's called "What's your status" on the podcast called The Gray Area
you forgot "I openly rely on the state-sanctioned violence to shield me from the inevitable consequences of being a 'have' in close physical proximity to a society of 'have-nots'" but other than that this is bulletproof.
"It is not to be thought that the life of darkness is sunk in misery and lost as if in sorrowing. There is no sorrowing. For sorrow is a thing that is swallowed up in death, and death and dying are the very life of the darkness."
- Jacob Boehme
very O'Brien of you
im not a "winner in the game of capitalism", im lower middle class. and i oppose UBI, i dont think people deserve it. we dont need a zombified mass of people who are plugged to a system of consumer capitalism, and must be artificially kept there by literally just giving them money. encouraging useless eaters is not a productive long-term strategy.
didn't we just learn in the pandemic that people would be productive even when not forced to on threat of starvation and death? people picked up all kinds of new skills and interests when presented with an opportunity to choose how they spent their time, being a species of problem-solvers means that human beings are inherently productive...I'd LOVE to see what that looks like without 90 percent of humankind being forced to struggle for everyday subsistence.
Ah so you’re a fascist? That would be why you’re paraphrasing Hitler with your comment on “useless eaters”.
Interesting. Haven’t heard that expression. Makes sense. I think we may be in store for quite a bit of useless eaters when AI automates Kim’s job.
if that happens, that all human tasks are done better by automatons, we can all be useless eaters, and by that point it won't even matter. What matters now, is the prevention of degradation of society by internet-induced passiveness, which leaves us little more than animals, though not free, wild and virile, but caged and tranquilized.
we're still lightyears from automating intellectual tasks anyway.
If you compare today's productivity and production to past centuries', that has already happened.
no, im not a fascist, i dont believe in race or nation, let alone a racial nation.
Then why are you quoting Hitler?
well i dont know, perhaps the anonymity of the online landscape means that i feel more confident quoting extremists, be they Hitler, ISIS or Stalin. I certainly don't equate the same things to "useless eater"-dom as Hitler did. Perhaps I feel like talking about "eugenics" otherwise would just result in me being called a dogwhisteler. But for the record, I think fascists (and any idealist ideologues) are as useless as can be. I don't even necessarily believe that these "useless eaters" should be killed or anything like that, I guess I'm just uh, concerned about the stifling of humanity that I have seen consumer capitalism do.
"...a zombified mass of people..."?
What about the class that ensures that the "masses" *get* zombified and remain so.
The Romans invented the strategy by giving the plebs bread and *circuses* but NOT education.
"You put out the eyes of the people and blame them for their blindness." John Milton
Thank you, Austin. If it gladdens even one person that’s a victory.